Romans 8 part 3

Any sort of regularity in my schedule is non-existent. So sorry for the lack of posts.

DISCLAIMER: THIS PASSAGE HOLDS A CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC WHICH I SHALL GIVE MY TWO CENTS WORTH. YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH IT IF YOU WANT BUT DON'T TRY TO SHOVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE DOWN MY THROAT BECAUSE YOU CAN READ WORDS SUCH AS ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION. I CAN TOO. GET OVER YOURSELF.

Read Romans 8.18-30

In the previous passage we saw that by being in Jesus we become heirs like him with our inheritance being the glory of God which we looked at a bit. We also saw that in order to receive his glory we have to suffer. Paul begins then by saying that the suffering which we have and will have is nothing compared to the glory that we shall receive. This glory that we shall receive shall reveal us as children of God, leaving no doubt who's we are. Creation is waiting for this. I think this is a really interesting idea and want to take a moment to go through my ideas on this, most of which might be wrong.

"For creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willing, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." Romans 8.19-21

Creation is waiting for the children of God to be glorified with God's glory. This tells me that creation is able to tell God from man. I got a cat, which is a part of creation. If I go to him with my own glory saying, "Look how great I am because of what I've done and my own glory! You can't bite me!" he'll still bite me because he's demon possessed. But if I have the glory of God he will recognize that. When the glory of God will be revealed in his children just as it was with Adam (looking at the Luke genealogy of Jesus we see that he claims that Adam is a son of God, also discussed earlier) who was able to interact with nature and creation in a way that we just can't. We try to control creation and yet we are so desperately dependent on it and can't control it because of the brokenness of creation, including ourselves.

In verse 20 we see that it says that creation was subjected to futility by him who subjected it. I've heard it said, "Well God subjected creation to futility so that Jesus could come." So God made Adam and Eve sin? "No." Those two answers don't match up. Did God have a hand in subjecting creation to futility? I'd say yes, but in this way: Get set everything up, gave man a commandment, don't eat that else you die and everything breaks. Either trust God or don't is what it comes down to. He knew the consequences of giving them that choice. He knew at some point someone would not make the choice for him and everything would get broken anyway. Who? When? He didn't know, but he knows the outcome of every possible decision that we have, are, can, and will ever make. He just doesn't know what decision we will make, but he already knows the outcome of it and all the other possible decisions we could have made. So by setting up the system of "Choose me or yourself and if you choose yourself you die and everything breaks" God set up the dominoes to subject creation to uselessness. God himself did not push the dominoes over, he left that to man because in God there is no evil, and pushing those dominoes is evil, it's against his commandment and will, done of the flesh. God doesn't contradict himself.

From there we look at the last two words of 20 and all of 21. The main thing to remember during these three verses is that we, humans, are a part of creation just as trees, plants, rocks, animals, and atoms. Creation was subjected to futility, as seen above in a way by God, because he had a plan that he hoped would work, knew would work as well because hope doesn't disappoint, that all of creation will be freed from the bondage of sin and will obtain the freedom that we children of God have through the glory that we have/will inherit.

Let's get real for a second. Why do natural disasters happen? Why do bad things happen to good people? Why is there death and war and famine and disease and cancer? Sin. All of these things are a part of creation, from the mutated cells that cause cancer to the tectonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis. And all these are a part of creation and are broken and corrupted because of sin. And it all waits eagerly for the children of God to be revealed because when that happens they shall be set free and there shall be no more death, pain, or tears.

Moving on we see a continuation of these ideas and also that we, humans, are also waiting for our revealing and adoption. I consider myself a child of God already. My girlfriend's family does foster care and all the kids call their foster parents "mom" and "dad." They're not really their mom and dad, they aren't even in the adoption process. But if they did go through it, it would take a while. Right now, from what I see in this scripture, we are in the foster care system. God has taken us in and is in the process of adopting us and we wait eagerly for the paper work to go through. They paperwork may go through when we die, judgment day, or sometime before or in between. Who knows? All I know is that even though I'm waiting, I'm still a child of God. And I hope in that glory, and as seen earlier hope doesn't disappoint, and by this hope we are saved (v. 24). Paul reinforces the idea that this hope isn't something that is in what is seen, but what we wait for. I wait for the glory of God, and I hope for it, and hope that my hope is not in vain. I hope in Jesus and his works, and by this hope I am saved. And I will find one day that is does not disappoint but instead is fulfilled.

All of this is because of the Spirit that we now have.

And not only that, but the Spirit also intercedes for us in prayer when we don't know how to pray or what to pray for. God, through the Spirit (I believe) searches our hearts to find what is on the mind of the Spirit. The Spirit intercedes for us according to the will of God. This for me means that God examines us, what's on our mind and heart. When we pray sometimes we don't know what to pray for and the Spirit, God himself, intercedes for us as God desires. Since God loves us and always wants what's best for us he will intercede as long as what we have on our hearts is inline with his will: i.e. his name being glorified all over the world.

Then 29 and 30 is where it gets really controversial.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And whose he predestined he also called and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

Let's work backwards. God glorifies those he justified. Those he justified are the ones who have faith in him who are the ones that he called. Those that he called are the ones that he predestined to be called. And those that he predestined he did so that they might be the firstborn among many. And those that he predestined were ones that he foreknew before they even existed.

Many that I know that believe in election like to use this verse to support their claim. That's fine, I just don't see it how they do. My big question is who does God know beforehand? Everyone because we see in Colossians 1.16 "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth..." No one can come into existence except by God, and for him to create them he must have known them beforehand. And the way that the verse in Romans is written it seems as if God predestined everyone he foreknew, meaning God has predestined everyone. Now this is getting into Rob Bell Love Wins territory so I'll show that that's not what I'm saying. We all have been predestined to be formed into the image of Jesus so that we might be the firstborn of many brothers. Just because we have been predestined to be conformed in the image of Christ doesn't mean that we automatically will or are. I see it as a choice because the text itself shows, by the words "might be" that we can choose or not choose to share the gospel and evangelize despite our predestination. So if God predestined someone else that we're supposed to talk to, and we decide not to and that person doesn't hear the gospel the way it would make sense to them then despite their predestination they don't accept Jesus. Then if they're still saved we have even bigger problems. You can be saved without accepting Jesus meaning we should do whatever we want because it doesn't matter if we accept him or not. Or God must dictate all of our actions so that those he chose to save will receive the gospel and be saved. But if that was the case then all must be saved because God foreknew all and Paul is wrong when he wrote "might be." Now some will argue about verses from chapter 9 which from what I read they take out of context and we will look at later.

But as for what is found in these verses of chapter 8 this is what I see. I challenge you to look at it on your own and see what God tells you. Maybe I'm wrong and those who believe in election are right. I'd be alright with that I don't see this doctrine as important to my salvation just like if the bread and wine actually turn into the body and blood of Jesus. But look and see what you can see.

Tomorrow we look at a less controversial issue which makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy.

Romans 8 part 1

Read Romans 8.1-11

So this is a bit late in coming, busy doing work for school lately trying to do a theology based on Amos which is fun but time consuming. Anyways, let's get started. Romans 8 is one of the deepest chapters we can read. I know I said something similar about Romans 6, an while chapter 6 is difficult, chapter 8 is deep. So let's dive in.

We left off with Romans 7 in which Paul gets horrible confusing, but ultimately says, "Even though we're saved and know what sin is, we're still going to sin because we know what sin is." Paul ended 7 on a fairly depressing note, but chapter 8 begins with one of the greatest phrases we may ever hear, and it truly speaks grace in it's entirety.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

What Paul says here is, "Yes, we are still sinners, and yes, sin still leads to death. But, though we are still sinners there is no condemnation against us because we are in Christ Jesus!" The Law has been fulfilled in Jesus, and we have died with him and have come alive with him as well. By dying on the cross Jesus had confined sin to the flesh, and we who have died with him are no longer considered according to the flesh but instead by the Spirit, and the Spirit which resides in us now is the Spirit of God himself. But having the Holy Spirit in us, we are then in Jesus. And by being in Jesus we are free from the law of sin and death. 

What this leads to then is that we ourselves fulfill the Law. We are righteous. Not by our own works though, but because we are in Jesus who has already fulfilled the Law. Confusing? Let's think about this.

When I was in Cleveland my parents came up once to visit. One day for lunch we go out to eat with the people that I was staying with. We sat around, ate, talked, got to know each other, and by this point I had lived with these people for a month or two. Afterwards my parents leave and I get a ride back with the people I was staying with. We get back to the house, are sitting around and the wife looks at me and says, "You and your dad have a lot of the same mannerisms." I never noticed before, but how could I? I'm a part of it. An egg never looks around and says, "I'm a part of this balanced breakfast." I couldn't look around and say, "I'm a lot like my dad in actions and speech." But by spending 20 years around my dad, I became like him. In the same way, by being in Christ we grow to be like him without thinking about. But that is only if we are truly in Jesus. 

What I mean by that last statement is this. As Paul writes in Romans 6.1, "Should we continue in sin so that grace may increase? No!" If we continue to purposefully sin trying to please only ourselves then we have not really been saved, we don't know the weight of sin, and we don't have the mind of God with us. But we realize what our vices are, we open ourselves up to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, allowing them to flow through us. We imitate Christ in all we do. We live as if we are saved. This is what it means to truly be in Jesus. 

And by imitating Jesus, we, like him fulfill the Law. But it is not us, as Paul writes in chapter 7, but the Spirit of God working in us. Verse 5 tells us that if we have our mind on things of the flesh: material possessions, sex, money, mind altering substances, etc. then we are still in the flesh. But if we are in the Spirit then our minds are on the things of the Spirit: righteousness, worship, God, the spread of the gospel, the caring to those around us. So I have to ask you this: Are you in the Spirit or the flesh? Lie to yourself if you wish, that's your call. God knows and will judge accordingly. I'm just here to get you to think about it. 

We see in the next verse, 6, that to set our mind on the flesh is death, where as setting our mind on the Spirit is life and peace with God. This is because in the Spirit we may please God, but in the flesh we cannot. 

9-11 ends with us reading that God dwells in us, making us the temple (1 Corinthians 3). If we do not have the Spirit, then we don't belong to God. We're not his children, heirs, disciples, or followers. We are his enemies at that point. But if we are in Christ, then even though our body is dead because of sin, our spirit is alive because of the righteousness of Christ which is given to us. And if we have the Spirit of God in us, then that spirit, which raised Jesus, shall raise us as well.

The Law

Read Romans 7

This is one of the most confusing chapters we find in Romans. When we get the point of it, it makes sense. But if we don't then we'll be saying, "Go home Paul, you're drunk!" What it comes down to is Romans 7 gets confusing, depressing, and very round-about. It's all about Paul's take on the Law.

What it comes down to is this: We are no longer under obligation to fulfill the Law, but we fulfill it anyway by being in Jesus.

As long as we are alive we are under the Law, and as we saw in chapter 5, before the Law the people were not bound by the Law, only the commandments of God of listen to him and have good relation with his creation. But, we died didn't we? Isn't that what chapter 6 was about? How we have died to sin and come alive with Jesus? So we have therefore since we are no longer alive, but instead resurrected, we are no longer under the Law. Before we died we belonged to the Law, now we belong to the one who fulfilled the Law: Jesus. Because we have been raised with him we are to bear fruit for God.

If we live in the flesh, we live according to the Law. But if we live in the Spirit, we are no longer under the Law, but the only response to living in the Spirit is to produce fruit for God.

So the big question at the moment is are you busy trying to jump through the hoops? Or are you producing fruit? Are you trying to save yourself or are you acting like you've already been saved?

Then we get into the second half of the chapter, which is where Paul gets confusing. I'll try to make this easy.

-Is the Law sin? No!
-Without the Law though we would not know what sin is.
-The Law is the canon, the measuring stick which says, "This is what is wrong, this is what is right." So without the Law, we wouldn't know what was wrong or right.
-We don't know that we have a desire to sin until we know what sin is. I never wanted to have sex until I knew what sex was. I never wanted to drink until I knew what drinking did. I didn't want to sin until I found out what sin is.
-So there are two forces working in us who are saved. That of the flesh and that of the Spirit.
-The Flesh wants to sin, which is what I don't want to do
-The Spirit doesn't want me to sin, which is what I want to do
-But my body betrays me, and I do what I don't want to do, agreeing with the Law that yes, this thing is bad and the Law is good.
-When my body betrays me and I sin, it is not be who is sinning, but the sin that is in me because in my flesh there is nothing good.
-I cannot do what is good because it is beyond my ability.

There is a war raging in each and every one of us, that sin is crouching at our door, waiting to take hold of us. And no only that buy it's killing us and we can't stop it. Sin dwells in us, making us sin, do evil, and we can't stop.

Who is going to save us from this evil?!

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the Law of God with my mind by with my flesh I serve the Law of sin.

We cannot escape sin on this earth, but God's grace is enough.

We end chapter 7 on that note, and turn the page to chapter 8 where there i hope and good news.