Romans 8 part 3

Any sort of regularity in my schedule is non-existent. So sorry for the lack of posts.

DISCLAIMER: THIS PASSAGE HOLDS A CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC WHICH I SHALL GIVE MY TWO CENTS WORTH. YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH IT IF YOU WANT BUT DON'T TRY TO SHOVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE DOWN MY THROAT BECAUSE YOU CAN READ WORDS SUCH AS ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION. I CAN TOO. GET OVER YOURSELF.

Read Romans 8.18-30

In the previous passage we saw that by being in Jesus we become heirs like him with our inheritance being the glory of God which we looked at a bit. We also saw that in order to receive his glory we have to suffer. Paul begins then by saying that the suffering which we have and will have is nothing compared to the glory that we shall receive. This glory that we shall receive shall reveal us as children of God, leaving no doubt who's we are. Creation is waiting for this. I think this is a really interesting idea and want to take a moment to go through my ideas on this, most of which might be wrong.

"For creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willing, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." Romans 8.19-21

Creation is waiting for the children of God to be glorified with God's glory. This tells me that creation is able to tell God from man. I got a cat, which is a part of creation. If I go to him with my own glory saying, "Look how great I am because of what I've done and my own glory! You can't bite me!" he'll still bite me because he's demon possessed. But if I have the glory of God he will recognize that. When the glory of God will be revealed in his children just as it was with Adam (looking at the Luke genealogy of Jesus we see that he claims that Adam is a son of God, also discussed earlier) who was able to interact with nature and creation in a way that we just can't. We try to control creation and yet we are so desperately dependent on it and can't control it because of the brokenness of creation, including ourselves.

In verse 20 we see that it says that creation was subjected to futility by him who subjected it. I've heard it said, "Well God subjected creation to futility so that Jesus could come." So God made Adam and Eve sin? "No." Those two answers don't match up. Did God have a hand in subjecting creation to futility? I'd say yes, but in this way: Get set everything up, gave man a commandment, don't eat that else you die and everything breaks. Either trust God or don't is what it comes down to. He knew the consequences of giving them that choice. He knew at some point someone would not make the choice for him and everything would get broken anyway. Who? When? He didn't know, but he knows the outcome of every possible decision that we have, are, can, and will ever make. He just doesn't know what decision we will make, but he already knows the outcome of it and all the other possible decisions we could have made. So by setting up the system of "Choose me or yourself and if you choose yourself you die and everything breaks" God set up the dominoes to subject creation to uselessness. God himself did not push the dominoes over, he left that to man because in God there is no evil, and pushing those dominoes is evil, it's against his commandment and will, done of the flesh. God doesn't contradict himself.

From there we look at the last two words of 20 and all of 21. The main thing to remember during these three verses is that we, humans, are a part of creation just as trees, plants, rocks, animals, and atoms. Creation was subjected to futility, as seen above in a way by God, because he had a plan that he hoped would work, knew would work as well because hope doesn't disappoint, that all of creation will be freed from the bondage of sin and will obtain the freedom that we children of God have through the glory that we have/will inherit.

Let's get real for a second. Why do natural disasters happen? Why do bad things happen to good people? Why is there death and war and famine and disease and cancer? Sin. All of these things are a part of creation, from the mutated cells that cause cancer to the tectonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis. And all these are a part of creation and are broken and corrupted because of sin. And it all waits eagerly for the children of God to be revealed because when that happens they shall be set free and there shall be no more death, pain, or tears.

Moving on we see a continuation of these ideas and also that we, humans, are also waiting for our revealing and adoption. I consider myself a child of God already. My girlfriend's family does foster care and all the kids call their foster parents "mom" and "dad." They're not really their mom and dad, they aren't even in the adoption process. But if they did go through it, it would take a while. Right now, from what I see in this scripture, we are in the foster care system. God has taken us in and is in the process of adopting us and we wait eagerly for the paper work to go through. They paperwork may go through when we die, judgment day, or sometime before or in between. Who knows? All I know is that even though I'm waiting, I'm still a child of God. And I hope in that glory, and as seen earlier hope doesn't disappoint, and by this hope we are saved (v. 24). Paul reinforces the idea that this hope isn't something that is in what is seen, but what we wait for. I wait for the glory of God, and I hope for it, and hope that my hope is not in vain. I hope in Jesus and his works, and by this hope I am saved. And I will find one day that is does not disappoint but instead is fulfilled.

All of this is because of the Spirit that we now have.

And not only that, but the Spirit also intercedes for us in prayer when we don't know how to pray or what to pray for. God, through the Spirit (I believe) searches our hearts to find what is on the mind of the Spirit. The Spirit intercedes for us according to the will of God. This for me means that God examines us, what's on our mind and heart. When we pray sometimes we don't know what to pray for and the Spirit, God himself, intercedes for us as God desires. Since God loves us and always wants what's best for us he will intercede as long as what we have on our hearts is inline with his will: i.e. his name being glorified all over the world.

Then 29 and 30 is where it gets really controversial.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And whose he predestined he also called and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

Let's work backwards. God glorifies those he justified. Those he justified are the ones who have faith in him who are the ones that he called. Those that he called are the ones that he predestined to be called. And those that he predestined he did so that they might be the firstborn among many. And those that he predestined were ones that he foreknew before they even existed.

Many that I know that believe in election like to use this verse to support their claim. That's fine, I just don't see it how they do. My big question is who does God know beforehand? Everyone because we see in Colossians 1.16 "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth..." No one can come into existence except by God, and for him to create them he must have known them beforehand. And the way that the verse in Romans is written it seems as if God predestined everyone he foreknew, meaning God has predestined everyone. Now this is getting into Rob Bell Love Wins territory so I'll show that that's not what I'm saying. We all have been predestined to be formed into the image of Jesus so that we might be the firstborn of many brothers. Just because we have been predestined to be conformed in the image of Christ doesn't mean that we automatically will or are. I see it as a choice because the text itself shows, by the words "might be" that we can choose or not choose to share the gospel and evangelize despite our predestination. So if God predestined someone else that we're supposed to talk to, and we decide not to and that person doesn't hear the gospel the way it would make sense to them then despite their predestination they don't accept Jesus. Then if they're still saved we have even bigger problems. You can be saved without accepting Jesus meaning we should do whatever we want because it doesn't matter if we accept him or not. Or God must dictate all of our actions so that those he chose to save will receive the gospel and be saved. But if that was the case then all must be saved because God foreknew all and Paul is wrong when he wrote "might be." Now some will argue about verses from chapter 9 which from what I read they take out of context and we will look at later.

But as for what is found in these verses of chapter 8 this is what I see. I challenge you to look at it on your own and see what God tells you. Maybe I'm wrong and those who believe in election are right. I'd be alright with that I don't see this doctrine as important to my salvation just like if the bread and wine actually turn into the body and blood of Jesus. But look and see what you can see.

Tomorrow we look at a less controversial issue which makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy.